Possible Japanese Censorship Law
Things like this piss me off. Japanese National Police Agency’s New Law against “Manga, Anime, Game Expression”
Today, I got an email from a Japanese creator, letting us know about the new law currently being discussed to be applied by Japanese National Police Agency. This is a law to restrict expression of Manga, Anime, Game, that are:
# Image that show sexual expression of characters that appears to be under 18.
(Ex: The character does not have under hair, or character appears to be an under 18 school age child.)
# Image that show characters appears or seems to be under age, that are engaging in sexual act weather or not if genital part is censored.
My thoughts after the jump.
First of all, I hate lolicon art. I absolutely hate them. But I am firmly against this form of censorship.
Child porn is bad because it harms children, but what harm can drawings do? It is absolutely true to say that many pedophiles probably like to view lolicon material, but that’s not what turned them into pedophiles in the first place. They are pedophiles because they are mentally fucked-up, not because of some pornographic drawings.
Correlation does NOT equal causation.
Millions of people play video games. Some of them are serial killers.
Millions of people watch television. Some of them are serial killers.
Millions of people eat ice-cream. Some of them are serial killers.
Just because serial killers play violent video games, watch television and enjoy ice-cream doesn’t make any of those things the cause of their violent nature.
Similarly, just because pedophiles read loli manga doesn’t mean that loli manga turns normal well-adjusted people into child molesters. It may seem very logical to conclude that a person who enjoys loli material will naturally turn into a pedophile, but there is simply nothing to support that hypothesis.
As such, those who advocate censorship have no justication for censorship other than the fact that they hate lolicon art.
Well, I hate lolicon art too. But then again, I also hate a lot of other things that people like to do. I hate idiots who want to censor everything that is different from themselves, for example. There are people who hate homosexuality. There are people who hate Christianity. But as long as they do no harm to anyone, who are we to enforce our preference upon others?
The rights of the minority must be protected, unless harm is done to the rest of society. When the majority seeks to enforce its views on the minority without justification beyond a matter of preference, then those people are no better than Adolf Hitler.
In conclusion, let the stupid lolicons fap to their loli-pr0n and shut the fuck up.
That said, if anyone can produce any convincing evidence that lolicon art is responsible for causing people (who are not already pedophiles) to molest children, then go ahead and ban the thing. Good luck though, the fundamentalist nutcases in America are still having a tough time doing the exact same thing for violent video games.
Either way it doesn’t concern me. Lolicon is crap.
May 21st, 2006 at 7:57 pm
Japan may be starting to clean up their act. They are the only country in the world where you can get real live action child porn with the flick of a finger with hundreds and thousands of sites dedicated to it.
I do not agree with you on some points. Let’s use an example. 1000 people view loliporn. Out of these 1000, 995 hide their latent urges successfully. 5 of these have poor self-control and molest kids. Should we then ban the 1000 people from viewing loliporn? Think about it. What is more important? The loliporn enjoyment of 995 people, or the safety of five kids?
Even if the ratios are 10,000 to 1, I would say the safety of the kids should be a priority.
Sure you can argue that these stuff would just go underground. By reducing access and production, all that would be left is just amateurish work, and so cutting down the amount of source material with which MAY corrupt people.
Don’t underestimate people’s tendency to be affected by what they read/watch/play. You may be normal and unaffected, but there will surely be some irrational nutcase who thinks seducing small girls and shooting up people is pleasurable.
May 21st, 2006 at 8:55 pm
While I might not really object to loliporn being forbidden because any kind of child porn, fictional or otherwise, sickens me but I still can’t help feeling worried when any kind of censor law is passed. The more readily we accept censor laws the more of them will appear. What starts out as censoring of offending material might soon turn into censoring the flow of information because it might induce unwanted behaviour in people (protests etc).
Tj Han - I don’t think your arguments hold for the same reason that I don’t think video games make people violent. For those very rare cases where a person is so disfunctional and very easily swayed by outside influences I think the people around them have all the responsibility to recognize this and act accordingly. I don’t think people become pedophiles by looking at child/loli porn because people that aren’t pedophiles from the beginning would find it sickening and wouldn’t look in the first place. With your reasoning we should forbid any kind of stimulating media. I agree with you that it might be good for Japan to become more strict in this particular area though, because the less accepted it is the better.
I might appear to be contradicting myself by supporting the censorship on a personal level but being against it when looking at it with a broader perspective. I’m not trying to say anyone is right or wrong, I’m just giving my take on the matter.
May 21st, 2006 at 10:07 pm
Tj han, you are assuming that those 5 people commited crimes because they view loliporn. This is a baseless assumption based on pure prejudice. As I said, correlation does NOT equate to causation. I would think that if those 5 people are such pathetic human scums that they can be influenced by a bunch of pictures to commit a crime, then they would have commited crimes anyway even without loliporn.
Censorship does not solve anything. Pedophiles will still be pedophiles. Violent criminals will still be violent criminals.
See, I see a very huge distinction between child porn and loli porn. In child porn, children are being harmed by the act itself. In loli porn, no one is harm. Essentially to punish someone for viewing loli porn is the same as thought crime. I think of killing certain people all the time. I just don’t do it. That’s a huge difference.
Hating loliporn on a personal level is one thing, trying to censor it is another. If something can be made illegal simply because the majority hates it, then what Hitler did in Germany shouldn’t be of anyone’s concern.
Most people shun homosexuality. Is it therefore okay to persecute homosexuals and censor any form of entertainment with homosexual influences just in case they become a bad influence to someone?
On a side note, I do support age-based restrictions because I can see how a child, with an underdeveloped perspective of the world, might be influenced by such entertainment. But I just can’t accept the argument that any form of entertainment can turn normal people into murderers and rapists.
May 21st, 2006 at 10:08 pm
I am a (female) fan of yaoi shota but in no way have I jumped at young boys.
I am partially against this law. As far as live-action is concerned I can not approve of too young persons (e.g. >16 y.o.), be they boys or girls, participating in porn of any kind.
However, DarkMirage, in his post (as far as I understand) talks about anime, manga and games
>> “This is a law to restrict expression of Manga, Anime, Game, that are:
# Image that show sexual expression of characters that appears to be under 18.”
Ok, first this is drawings, not live-action, so I am against this point of the law in question.
Secondly, it even says “appears to be”, well there are a lot of mangas (not to mention doujinshi) out there that have their characters look younger than their actual age. I can think of at least 10 yaoi-mangas that fit such description.
I guess my opinion is biased by my preferences, but the fact is, that one can hardly blame anime/manga/games for the actions of a mentally ill person. And all those that harass kids/underaged in one way or another are nothing short of mentally disturbed.
I also hate lolicon and as a matter of fact hentai too, but I don’t mind other people liking it, or the people themselves. But I do mind all those nameless nutcases that have never in their life heard about manga/anime/shota/loli, but still harbour unhealthy desire towards adolescents. That is sick, but the fact is this law won’t cure them. It will only prevent those who are sane yet still fine some pleasure in such things from enjoying them.
What is more, from another perspective, there’s always the chance that observing such pics, soothes their desire for the real thing. The absolute opposite is also possible, but even so they balance each other, so the final effect is zero.
Please, bear in mind that ever since the third paragraph, I am only referring to anime/manga/games, in no way I am talking about live-action adolescent porn, which is disgusting beyond words.
May 21st, 2006 at 10:22 pm
Hmmm… maybe I should explain my point about correlation vs causation with an analogy.
Phenomenon A: The sun sets.
Phenomenon B: The sky turns dark.
A and B always happen together. This is correlation.
A causes B to happen. This is causation.
Now let’s say a man always reaches home from work when the sun sets.
Phenomenon A: The sun sets.
Phenomenon B: The man reaches home.
A and B always happen together. This is correlation.
But A does not cause B to happen. There is no cause and effect.
Similarly, violent criminals are found to enjoy violent games. There is nothing to show that the games actually caused the violent behaviours. There is only correlation. Therefore, it is illogical to conclude that by taking away the violent games, it will somehow solve the problem of violent crimes.
And if a cause-and-effect case cannot be established, censoring such material can only be considered a violation of free speech.
May 21st, 2006 at 10:35 pm
You base your argument on the claim that loliporn doesn’t influence a person to go paedo AT ALL. It can’t be proven as you said, since the converse has not been proven as well.
Matte makes a good point though.
Let me describe a situation. Let’s say this guy, Mr Saitou, has always been a hardworking adult who indulges in a bit of manga and anime as a hobby. With the recent advent of loliporn and to a lesser extent, moe, he starts to like small cute girls. He finds them attractive but not in a sexually way. But after a while, through expansion of his new interests, he gets into reading loli doujin, playing loli AVGs and finds that hey, lolis are a massive sexual turn on for him too. And as he tires of handdrawn stuff, he begans to relate the lolitas in his HCG to the little girls out on the street. At first it just starts with eyeing them. Then he discovers that hey, they are really cute and he likes cute young girls. He thinks of his loli eroge and doujin when he sees cute young girls. His imagination runs wild.
Mr Saitou is now a paedophile. Even if he doesn’t capture young girls and molest them. Just because people don’t show it doesn’t mean they aren’t.
Is the above situation totally impossible? I do not think so. In fact, it has probably happened a lot of times. While I’m not in favour of the ban like all bans, but I do not agree with your insistence that nothing can affect how a person grows.
I’m very sure my personality and life have been changed by what I read and watch.
May 21st, 2006 at 10:48 pm
The act of molestation itself is punishable.
However, if someone is a “pedophile” but does not commit the actual act, then it is nobody’s business what he likes to do with his life.
Crime vs. Thought crime.
May 21st, 2006 at 11:45 pm
…so you’re saying that all people have an unalienable right to objectify underage girls? Am I missing something?
May 22nd, 2006 at 12:09 am
Before getting rid of loliporn, they need to get rid of people that call others lolicons. Seriously, internalization is a far deadlier tool in turning someone into a lolicon than loli itself.
May 22nd, 2006 at 12:25 am
No, I am saying people have the right to do whatever they want as long as it does not infringe on your rights.
Censoring things you find to be unpleasant is the same as trying to control what people think. Thoughts should NEVER be made criminal, no matter how tempting doing so may seem sometimes.
May 22nd, 2006 at 9:26 am
I know Canada have a law just like the one they are going to put up, but with “Any image that show sexual expression of characters that appears to be under 18″, what you end up with is 90% of the anime don’t made it to the Canada and those that do are cutted to a point it’s a different show.
I fear for the furture of anime
May 22nd, 2006 at 9:58 am
I just don’t get it with them. Let peodophiles do what they want. But why ruin things. I mean, we can have a matured person that looks loli, so does that mean they are underage? And what’s with under hair?! There’s this thing called shaved!
Then again… WHAT’S WITH CENSORSHIP? They practically mosiac a certain part when you already know what the heck it is.. So might as well they don’t censor it ya?
May 22nd, 2006 at 2:11 pm
What our esteemed colleague is putting through with his example of poor Mr. Saitou is that prolonged exposure to cute loli/shotaporn will turn a person into a pAedophile. Unfortunately this is a laughable argument. A few years ago in an unnamed country, a conservative MP chastitied women for dressing provacatively as enticing men to rape them. A few months later, a woman who was properly dressed by his standards got raped by a bus driver.
Now is it the fault of the woman to have provoked the rape? Or is it rather that the man would have raped her regardless of whether she was in a bikini outfit or a full head to toe gown? The point is that if a person is a pAedophile, he will be a pAedophile regardless of any external influences. They will take advantage of the situation when it arises. It is the matter of selfcontrol. Those that are destined to be reallife child molesters WILL have lack of that selfcontrol regardless of whether they are exposed to pAedophilic material.
You will amazingly find that with or without censorship, the number of people actually caught molesting children will be the same once you factor all those who were caught with possession of the material but are not molesters out of the equation.
And if you want to ban drawings of underaged boys/girls, let’s ban alcohol first. Alcohol kills more people and has more destructive effects on more children. And smoking too. Let’s not forget carbonated drinks… and junk food…
May 22nd, 2006 at 2:29 pm
I’m glad Japan might actually do something about it’s pedo-culture. Between 1994 and 2004, reported sexual assaults of children increased with 70 %. I’m all for not giving pedophiles more material to feed their fantasies with.
May 22nd, 2006 at 9:38 pm
Here goes old good hentai :(
Now, what the Hell of hentai it would be, if there weren’t nude cock-sucking middle schoolgirls with an innocent expression on their faces?
That is the real crap.
May 22nd, 2006 at 11:24 pm
Ah the many things that inspires the vices of men. Are people naturally pedos or has society made them that way? Or is it a vicious cycle that reinforces each other, heightening the maddness?
All these things we enjoy in society can be maligned and misused at the expense of innocents. The suggestion alcohol should be banned is commendable, but a significant majority benefits from it.
If lolicon goes, it would be because the otaku / pedophile / ephebophile. Their cause does not have enough traction within mainstream society to offset the percieved harm. Tobacco in America is a similiar target.
As many people have pointed out, the slippery slope of what “appears to be” under 18 will have interesting impacts. A curiousity considering the age of consent there is far under 18.