Apocalypse now
Taken from RIUVA. So Odex has finally done it. Singapore’s anime community is doomed. Oh shit. So anyway some poor guy probably wet his pants after receiving this letter.
BTW the organization mentioned in the letter AVPAS (Anti-Piracy Association of Singapore) is similar to the RIAA/RIAS except that Odex appears to be the sole active member. The organization has obtained authorizations from various Japanese studios to represent their rights for all their copyrighted works, even those that are not licensed by Odex for distribution in Singapore. The full list of titles can be found on their website.
Read on for my thoughts.
That said, I am very, very curious as to how Odex, a private entity, managed to obtain personal data from the ISPs based on purely circumstantial evidences. As far as I can see from the AVPAS member list, there is zero indication that it is anything but a private organization. It is related to neither the police nor the relevant government agencies. Therefore, it is the anime equivalent of the RIAA.
However, RIAA, as mighty and powerful as it appears to be, is not able to obtain any personal information from American ISPs directly. It has to do it through the court. That means that it has to first start the legal procedures before the court issues a subpoena that forces the ISP to reveal the identity of the defender and summons the person to court. The defenders in these lawsuits are given the generic name “John Doe” because their names are undisclosed by their ISPs until after the court subpoena. In such cases, the first letter received by the poor sob should be from his own ISP informing him of the existence of such a subpoena for his identity.
The above letter is addressed to the person himself and was sent directly by Odex. This means that Odex, without first going through any legal proceedings, is able to obtain personal information directly from the ISPs using only the IP address. That is insane if you consider the amount of invasive power that has been put into the hands of private company and the potential for abuse by individuals with their personal agendas.
You know, there’s a certain someone whom I really hate on a certain forum. I will fake produce a record of his IP address illegally torrenting a picture that I once drew during a particularly boring physics lecture. I shall then e-mail this “proof” to Singnet and ask for this person’s home address. And if that doesn’t work, I’ll go spend a few bucks to register a company to make the request seem more legitimate…
Of course Odex is a legitimate company that is trying to protect its rights under the current intellectual property rights law (flawed as it may be). But my point is that if a private entity can obtain such information without the prior knowledge of the people involved and without the authority of the court, then what exactly in our legal system is protecting our privacy from abuse by some unscrupulous characters? And if such protection of personal privacy does indeed exist, what exactly allows Odex to bypass it?
Then again, I’m not well-versed with the local legal system. Maybe our privacy laws are really that screwed up. Oh well.
Read this excellent explanation of the “RIAA vs. John Doe” lawsuits, particularly the sections on “How the RIAA identifies the people they sue” and “The Lawsuit Begins”, and compare it to what Odex is apparently authorized to do. Doesn’t RIAA look like the better alternative?
So what are your remaining options for your weekly anime fix?
- Direct download sites
- Obscure Chinese Bittorrent trackers
- XDCC bots on IRC
- Download raws off Winny/Share
- Move to Japan
- Find a job at Odex
Alternatively, find a safer hobby like playing pirated computer games or serial jaywalking.



May 30th, 2007 at 3:12 am
Godspeed DM, godspeed.
May 30th, 2007 at 3:16 am
Actually, moving to Sweden seems like a better option, lol
May 30th, 2007 at 4:53 am
gods….
no privacy at all…finally.
direct download site will pop up with more and more people….
May 30th, 2007 at 5:04 am
That’s why I like Poland - it’s a normal country - our two most important persons, the president and prime minister, are twins (I shit you not).
Anyway, I’ve already mentioned this on ADD, let me C&P:
Has anyone tried “Protocol Encryption” when using a BT client? A full explanation can be found here: http://www.azureuswiki.com/index.php/Message_Stream_Encryption. Here’s an excerpt:
“The following encapsulation protocol is designed to provide a completely random-looking header and (optionally) payload to avoid passive protocol identification and traffic shaping. When it is used with the stronger encryption mode (RC4) it also provides reasonable security for the encapsulated content against passive eavesdroppers.”
Of course, this does not solve anything, just allows you to download your precious Lucky Star anonymously ;) It should be safe, it’s supported by uTorrent/Azureus/BitComet/KTorrent (AFAIK), by default uTorrent accepts such connections, so there shouldn’t be fewer peers (not like it’s a problem for the new torrents :).
Hope this helps, but I would prefer if such a method would not be needed in the first place :/ Seriuosly, there is something wrong here… - “Alternatively, find a safer hobby like playing pirated computer games or serial jaywalking.”
May 30th, 2007 at 5:17 am
You know, considering you live in a nanny state where the purchase and consumption of chewing gum is severely restricted (sorry, I had to make a jab at that. It feels good.), it would make sense that a private organization would be able to pressure an ISP to divulge IP addresses and the such. The privacy rights of individual consumers will be easily thrown to the wayside in the interest of preserving the non-complacentcy of the ISP concerning the download of fansubs.
What would make a bigger case in your courts: an ISP upholding its TOS by giving an anti-piracy group the IP addresses of users violating international copyright law, or litigation concerning privacy rights of denizens in an already highly controlled society?
May 30th, 2007 at 6:43 am
Yikes, I’m scared after reading that letter and it’s not even addressed to me. an interesting read, and it does strike me as strange that companies can find out anything they want to know about you, by the looks of this. Good stuff, thanks for sharing. Big Brother IS watching you. Whilst you sleep.
May 30th, 2007 at 7:09 am
I agree with you. Singapore laws are always quite…. perculiar.
Just curious, how do you know Odex hasn’t gone through a legal process to obtain the names?
May 30th, 2007 at 7:22 am
Eeek,that has to suck….
May 30th, 2007 at 7:23 am
Is it legal to download anime when by torrent is not ?
May 30th, 2007 at 7:50 am
Hmm the moving to Japan suggestion sounds interesting,not that I could do it now anyway. Lol.
Anyway,I doubt bittorent encryption actually works. Or does it? Anyone knows?
May 30th, 2007 at 8:03 am
sorry about the my last post, I forgot a word lol
Is it legal to direct download anime when by torrent is not ?
May 30th, 2007 at 8:12 am
By the way, notice how ODEX’s website has been ‘down’ due to it getting a new look? It’s been like that for at least 2 weeks already
May 30th, 2007 at 9:04 am
Winnyは?
May 30th, 2007 at 9:34 am
Here in the US, an ISP would be legally liable if they released customer information to a party that claimed infringement.
As part of a two-man US based regional ISP (we’re part of a local telco and have about 6,000 customers), when I get a letter from a copyright holder, I call the customer and tell them they need to stop sharing whatever I was specifically told they were sharing. Personally, I’m polite about it, because I understand. Larger ISPs may not be as nice. Polite or not, though, around these parts they aren’t getting customer information without a warrant. Personally, I don’t even inform the copyright holder representative unless they demand that I do so.
I see this as a question in two parts:
1) Does Odex actually have the right to this information without legal proceedings? You asked this, yourself, but seriously, please find out. If the otaku of Singapore don’t find out NOW, this could set a really bad precedent for politics in your country as a whole. The US is already slipping down that particular slope because we didn’t win the war with music and movie copyright enforcement sanity several years ago. The entire world is being dragged down in this mess because of a few large US and European copyright holding companies spearheaded this insanity, but it looks like Singaporeans can go from zero to exploited a lot faster if a corporation can be given this sort of power, protected by the law or not.
2) Even if they do have the right to do that under the law… Does the law protect their pursuit of it? Interfering with a police or government investigation is a crime in most places… but is interfering with a private corporation’s martyr hunt a crime there? A little intentional poisoning of the waters to create fake infringement can make their search a lot harder, and embarrass them in court. I’d still be scared in Singapore, though, because I’m not sure how much power the courts have even if some one could prove they were only pretending to share.
As far as Winny… Tracking down uploaders on it is pretty easy. I’d be just as scared to use Winny as I would to use BitTorrent.
Whether Winny or BitTorrent, though, I’d imagine that international proxies and anonymizing networks could solve the problem. I doubt Odex has the resources to track it that far, especially not on a large scale.
Trackback from
Anime downloader caught,Good Job Odex... « Furu Anime PanikkuMay 30th, 2007 at 10:34 am
[...] 30th, 2007 If you haven’t been reading around, go to here or here . Looks like ODEX has caught its prey. And from the look of the list,I doubt that the fine is going [...]
May 30th, 2007 at 1:08 pm
What many outsiders here, including DM, don’t realise is that Singapore has very scanty laws when it comes to privacy protection for the individual consumer. In the name of efficiency, most of our personal data are filed in massive databases easily accessible by all government agencies and even government linked ones. There is no protection, unlike in the US and especially the EU.
I’m of the opinion that all ODEX had to do was to show that they owned the licenses and had the backing of the original studios, and the government/ISPs (same difference) would readily provide this information in their ongoing quest to make the country a lot more attractive to foreign investment.
Privacy does not earn you money!
May 30th, 2007 at 1:09 pm
Oh yeah, the majority of large corporations here are government linked.
May 30th, 2007 at 1:17 pm
Of course Odex must be doing it through some kind of legal mandate, but whatever it is it appears quite certain that the individual was not priorly informed of the fact that his personal information was divulged to a non-government profit entity.
Anyway, I am pretty confident that Winny and Share are still safe because as a private entity like AVPAS/Odex, it makes more sense in terms of profits and gains to concentrate all its resources into monitoring the most popular and easily-monitored torrents (i.e. Animesuki and Tokyo Toshokan). I am quite certain that the ISPs themselves are not actually involved in the capturing of traffic data, yet.
Now if you are going to talk about Singapore being a nanny state, I think that it’s perfectly fine for the government to be in control of most things. But AVPAS is not the government. That is my problem with this whole thing.
May 30th, 2007 at 1:30 pm
@Tedfox Easy. Because the person who uploaded this letter has not been summoned to court before this letter, containing all the downloads was sent to him.
Generally speaking though, this forms a very good case study on how a company, who has enjoyed a near monopoly over the years, is resisting change and trying to cling on to its monopoly power. Same goes for the companies under MPAA and RIAA.
That being said though, I must raise the point that a jail sentence would not be applicable in this case, unless IPOS or any governmental or quasi-governmental organisation is brought into the picture. Therefore, any legal action taken would be tried in the civil court. While its scant consolation, in these dark times perhaps even a ray of light is better than none.
That being said, I’ll like to end off by quoting an analogy I read somewhere about the current debate over IP, which goes something like how corporations like Odex “are sitting on a field of gold, but instead of trying to dig the gold, they worry instead about erecting fences to protect the field.”
May 30th, 2007 at 1:35 pm
I guess it’s not actually a matter of privacy. I’m not saying that the ISPs should defend our identities till death or anything.
RIAA will still eventually find out your identity but it does it through proper legal proceedings in court and thus requires a level of commitment that deters abuse and false claims. And the defender is informed of this beforehand.
In AVPAS’ case, it is clearly stated in the letter that legal proceedings have not begun yet and it is seeking a settlement out of court. This means that there is no arbitrator (i.e. the court) involved in the process as of this stage and god knows what goes on without our knowing. Especially if the settlement involves a non-disclosure agreement.
May 30th, 2007 at 2:01 pm
How is downloading via XDCC and DDL sites any safer than torrenting? It’s not right?
May 30th, 2007 at 2:04 pm
It is.
As stated in the letter, AVPAS obtains infringement evidences from a third party monitoring service. The ISPs themselves are not involved.
Therefore, XDCC and DDL are safe because it is not possible for a third party to monitor them. Only the ISPs are able to do that and they have no incentives to do so.
BitTorrent is vulnerable because anybody can scrape a tracker and get all the IP addresses currently connected to it.
May 30th, 2007 at 2:07 pm
I see. I didn’t know that. Well, what an interesting and yet saddening point this has come too after months of anxiety. Time to get a new hobby.
May 30th, 2007 at 2:32 pm
Guess we have to wait and see how the scence plays out… Though I am not very hopeful considering Odex history and that the fact that their site is still ‘upgrading’( for all we know, the ‘upgrading’ may be permanent). No anime now….. I am already in hell.
May 30th, 2007 at 3:24 pm
ODEX, you have now done it. You will never get a single cent from me now.
May 30th, 2007 at 3:37 pm
I totally agree with DM on this rant; How can they get such information if they’re working as an individual? I won’t repeat things i said on the other comments on blogs but really. The methods they’re using is just not legal. To track the torrent, aren’t they using torrents themselves?
I’d be surprised if this turns out to be another NKF scandal.
May 30th, 2007 at 3:50 pm
i am firm with the desicion tat odex products sucks. I dunno how, but some of my anime friends said they were improving.
But one thing is for sure. They arent the one who initiated it. They are probably grinning from the lawsuit victories if there are any so far, but the one who gave them this little scam is AVPAS and IPOS.
I’m not sure if Odex will be totally happy that they have totally monopolize the anime community in sg with their stupidity. Cuz i’m sure they totally haven’t. in fact they just made themselves due for extinction if fans hate them.
and if you visit the link where riuva get the letter from. the forum. Singtel has no clue on whats going on, after the victim called and enquire about it.
May 30th, 2007 at 3:59 pm
ooh. thats bad. srsly bad. but judging from that list, its mostly bleach and the rest are just inuyasha and tsubasa. and why target him? there are THOUSANDS of others out there who illegally dl these 3 shows. Damn odex. Damn your mothers for birthing you. Damn you allzzzz.
May 30th, 2007 at 4:02 pm
I guess it’s back to IRC for anime downloads. (Damn this feels so…1999). But wait a sec…wasn’t there a report about how a couple of Malay guys got charged in court for distributing copyrighted songs?
I guess that leaves us only with
1.) Direct download sites
2.) Obscure Chinese Bittorrent trackers
Suppressing people from downloading animes will only just drive them deeper underground. Haiz… :(
May 30th, 2007 at 4:03 pm
LOL. Time to move over exclusively to Share :[
Why must all this random shit happen THIS YEAR? I should just keep off the internets already.
I’m pretty sure any agency here with power is more than willing to support a local company on the Right Side of Justice ™ even if the law might not explicitly allow private companies to access information based on IPs (perhaps it has a loophole, I dunno - guess we don’t have any anime-watching Singaporean dudes aroudn here with clear knowledge of the law?)
May 30th, 2007 at 4:25 pm
Check the entry on Share on wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Share_(P2P). Share and Winny are not anonymous but I agree that it’s easier to concentrate on popular anime trackers and that’s probably what ODEX will be doing…
Anyone familiar with Perfect Dark? It’s supposed to be the “next Share”, of course anonymous, safe, etc.
Trackback from
I told you so. « Anime Desho Desho?May 30th, 2007 at 4:47 pm
[...] immediately fired up my firefox and dive back into anime community and the latest news on Riuva and DarkMirage confirmed what I was trying to warn everyone a week [...]
May 30th, 2007 at 5:17 pm
Disclaimer: I’m not professionally trained in law, so legal ppl at the ISPs, don’t burn DM’s or my butt if I got the facts wrong in this comment ;)
The part that really puzzled my was how Odex managed to get its hands on the guy’s personal info, like his name and mailing address, and it seems like a few other commenters here would like to know how too.
So I looked into Singtel’s Terms and Conditions, and lo and behold, clause 15:
OK, so this means that Singtel can just give my info to anybody who it deems worthy enough? Could somebody with law knowledge have a read through it and explain what this means?
They gave a way out though, “…unless otherwise notified in writing by the Customer in the procedure as determined by the Service Provider from time to time.”
So, I wonder what is this procedure, and we have to tell them from “time to time” to not divulge our info?
I’ve not checked the other ISPs T&Cs yet, but I imagine it is something chillingly similar.
I’ve skimmed through Starhub’s T&C (available in the navigation bar at the bottom, under “Legal & Privacy Statement - I can’t link to it directly, ’cause they say in their T&C I can’t…), and it seems like there is no such clause so far. Another interesting page would be their “Copyright Act Notification”, which gives info on the procedures for a company to notify a customer of an infringement.
May 30th, 2007 at 5:58 pm
Wow, that’s just messed up. Odex simply gets your personal information just like that, without any legal proceedings whatsoever? What’s more, Singtel can just away give your personal information like that?
gg Singapore.
May 30th, 2007 at 6:09 pm
Very curious to know how Odex was able to obtain multiple ip addresses (adsl ip is mostly dynamic) of the same person over a period of time and be able to pinpoint it to the same person unless, they somehow managed to get a whole list of ips, request the isp to divulge the list of persons, then extract his name from the list. Sounds like a terrible invasion of privacy if that is the case.
Not ruling out a conspiracy theory, is there any possibility that this letter is a plant to threaten anime fansub downloaders? It would have been a lot more believable if the ip remained somewhat stagnant. But then again I don’t really know much about ip addresses etc.
May 30th, 2007 at 6:30 pm
You can add private foreign FTPs to that list of alternative sources. That assumes that you know a guy in some other country is willing to help out. If you’re really paranoid, there is FTPS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FTPS).
I sincerely doubt that ODEX will put so much effort as to employ packet sniffer applications and subsequently decipher all the encrypted packets. It’s bloody expensive and not always accurate.
May 30th, 2007 at 7:04 pm
@tr: we did consider the plant, my friend and i. but whether it is or not, it’s still freaky.
Why would AVPAS have to advertise the fact that they are connected to the government? Forgive me if I’m ignorant but there isn’t a rule is there? “All government-affiliated agencies must declare itself to be so.” No what. It’s just more sadistic fun for them for our eyes to go big and us going “OMGWTF you know Lee Kuan Yew?!”
Alright exaggeration.
Whether AVPAS is connected to the government is of little significance, I think, since the government appears to be quite eager to please the US on this front.
Secondly, remember that Singtel IS government-affiliated. Knowing our democratic politicians, that clause could have been chucked in as a convenient door to access information without too much red tape.
Anyways DarkMirage, great post. I’ll be checking back.
May 30th, 2007 at 7:09 pm
Ahem uh this doesn’t make me very cool, but lemme just add one more thing.
What incentive do the people at AVPAS have to go on this blazing crusade of justice (watched too much Death Note and Code Geass)?
I’d really like to know. Or are they just in need of people to mentally torture?
May 30th, 2007 at 7:49 pm
I may sound contradictory. Pardon me, i’m easily social engineered.
@Hectic
They wouldn’t need packet sniffers because they’re monitoring the torrents’ trackers. They’re employing some kind of third party software (or maybe even their own bittorrent client) to seek out connections and their respective IPs. Encrypting data is useful to a certain extent but when they have the ability to become one of you it’s impossible now. They could be one of the peers/seeds and who knows. You’re probably connected to them when you’re downloading the latest Bleach or Naruto.
I think the best way is to totally avoid anime downloading. Like tsubaki; go on a diet. If they are going to an unable full force, then it’s best to soften the blow.
I know it’s hard for you all to understand but really think about it; is your Lucky Star that worth it? Please think thorough through. Unless you’re in your 80s and you have no more life ahead of you then yeah go on a download spree but if not i strong encourage others to not.
Of course, i would still like to know how the hell did ODEX acquire all these information. If they extracted such information via exploiting Clause 15 then i guess Singnet really, really sucks as an ISP. I guess we can all go register under PACnet or Starhub or some other crappy ISP.
May 30th, 2007 at 7:52 pm
Farinelli: Not sure if the US/FTA has anything to do with this case since it’s not even infringing on US licensing rights. But yes I totally agree it’s freaky. Frankly if this is a legitimate action on an individual, I’m pretty surprised that they would target a downloader (primarily) rather than a distro (although I must admit, the very basis of bittorrent is the concept of sharing).
May 30th, 2007 at 8:08 pm
I am fairly certain that AVPAS is just a front for Odex. It is a private entity. It should not have any law enforcement powers.
What proof do I have? It’s simple really :)
Google for AVPAS Vice-President “Go Wei Ho Peter” and you will find him listed as Production Coordinator under the English version of Fantastic Children. The English production of the series was outsourced to Odex.
And look who else is listed as Production Coordinator: “Sing Xin Yang”. I’m sure that’s the very same Mr. Sing Xin Yang who is listed as the Secretary of AVPAS.
And take a look at this alumni page of NUS Business School. You will find the name of a certain “Miss Yong Yet Yuen” who also happens to be the Treasurer of AVPAS. And lo and behold, Mr. Go Wei Ho also graduated the same year! What a coincidence.
I shall not bother to continue, but I bet you can find similar links to Odex for everyone else on that member list.
Conclusion: AVPAS is not a government organization. AVPAS = Odex. Now why would Odex bother to do this instead of just suing directly? Because they need some way of making it clear to people that they have the authorization of the Japanese studios, which they do. But make no mistake about it. AVPAS is definitely not a government entity and Odex is, as far as I can see, the only real member of this pseudo organization.
I’m not passing judgement on what Odex is doing, I’m just pointing out the truth. AVPAS is a private entity just like the RIAA. Don’t let its official-sounding title make you think otherwise.
May 30th, 2007 at 8:35 pm
Way to go Odex, first their crap goods and now this…
I wont be surprised this company goes under in a few years. I know i would be happy
May 30th, 2007 at 8:35 pm
This drama and fiasco only proves that anime watching has become Singapore’s most expensive hobby. Guess I will be seeing you guys at dailymotion or whatever is left on youtube.
Trackback from
Musings of a Daydreaming Wanderer » Blog Archive » Neon Odex Evangelion: End of AnimeMay 30th, 2007 at 8:38 pm
[...] usual, life goes on in Singapore with just one more “correction” to the Matrix: C&D letters for anime are being sent. I am going to make a prediction here with this new [...]
May 30th, 2007 at 8:39 pm
I’ve been occasionally using nico nico when I’m lazy to download the raw. It’s like a Japanese YouTube except with better video quality and no copyright takedowns.
But the service has some limitations right now and new users (those with user IDs greater than 777777) can only access it from 2pm to 7pm.
May 30th, 2007 at 8:40 pm
Hey Odex, before you send letters to people for illegally downloading stuff, please give us an explanation as to why your subs for GSD is exactly the same as SEED Fansubs’. :/
May 30th, 2007 at 8:46 pm
@ethreal
Really, same as fansub? WTF man……. One of the few odex stuff i bought is Shakugan no Shana and they censored some stuff with their subtitles…. ya, like my jap is dumb enuff not being able to differentiate Oniisan and Master.
May 30th, 2007 at 8:59 pm
Now thats a total shame! Of course, I do notice that those they provided are all US Licensed anime… but lets not open that envelope…
I wish you best of luck with going on. As a note, what was mentioned above about the Package Encryption sounds like a good idea…
http://www.azureuswiki.com/index.php/Avoid_traffic_shaping
http://www.azureuswiki.com/index.php/Message_Stream_Encryption
I will say it again, but best of luck!
May 30th, 2007 at 9:01 pm
The enforcement dept inform me that obex has obtain the court order from japan and it seem that those japanese anime company have gang up to catch all of us(anime downloader) from singapore..with the law order , the isp are authorized to reveal our address, all private information..and now we are getting this formal letter asking us to pay for damages……
oh great…i just paid mine…i will not touch internet again
May 30th, 2007 at 9:04 pm
So who here thinks this should go public? With all the leakage of infomation and all and I’d think the public as well as the anime communities would be very intrested in details on Odex’s staff
May 30th, 2007 at 9:08 pm
I’m migrating once I get enough money to rent an apartment. I’m not gonna do reservist for this shit. i don’t see a damn point in beinga willing citizen when the country or for the matter, a monopoly tries to dictate what we do. its not like we get anime aired on TV here, and most are the lame ones like pokemon, YuGiOh etc. As a student in the arts sector, I CANNOT stand censorship. Half the Anime I watch will be edited, censored or heck, banned for release.
Right now I’m resorting to R1 and R2 dvds, but NS life gives me enough money to lick my *censored*.
ODEX claims to have improved, their last few releases so far have made me puked. Horrible subtitling, crappy encoding, inaccurate translations, and no bother in even karaokeing the opening/endings. Heck, their subs for Gundam SEED Destiny are word for word from seed fansubs releases! WTF!? Their packaging is cheap and flimsy, compared to the casings on my R1 and R2s so far.
I’d rather move to the America or Japan. Sure, the chances of getting killed by a gun totting lunatic is higher in the states, but its alot better then living in a 2nd North Korea. I’d prolly have to put up with higher living expenses in Japan too if i choose that country, but at least the selection there is better and more ‘open’ then our budding North Korea V2.
Next they’ll ban taiwanese manga (because of censorship issues), then Japanese import manga and magazines, then they’ll not allow Japanese anime/game cg/illustration books, maybe Kinokuniya can close all its branches.
I hope the ice caps melt soon, then all ships will use the shorter northern sea route and Singapore can be reduced to its isolated control hell.
The reason I buy Anime in the first place was because I was introduced to it via fansubs. Now they’re trying to monitor it, oh yay. I’m definately gonna buy the dvds of Heroic Age, Lucky Star, Nanoha StrikerS, Shakugan S2. I’d however rather watch them first like every Japanese person with a TV in Japan does and see if I enjoy it.
At the rate they are going, they might as well ban internet. Everything we do on these days is illegal anyways. Downloading a picture itself is already a crime, criticizing politics is a crime, badmouthing key individuals is a crime. We can go back to the stone age and play with fire and club each other with wooden clubs at this rate. what joy. So much fun.
May 30th, 2007 at 9:12 pm
I think you are over-reacting. This is just a single company trying to maintain its rapidly-disappearing source of profit. It’s not some government conspiracy to deprive us of anime. I think Singapore as a country is still pretty okay.
And I’m hopeful that this will escalate to a point where the mainstream media gets involved and forces Odex to show its whole hand. As it currently is, individuals targeted by Odex are highly disadvantaged because they have access to no information other than what Odex claims to be true. That’s a very bad situation to negotiate a legal settlement in.
May 30th, 2007 at 9:13 pm
To Silverwolf X: You have pretty much covered what I feel now.
May 30th, 2007 at 9:16 pm
This is quite unbelievable. I thought this kind of stuff would only happen if you are in breach of national security or something like that. This issue is turning from bad to worse.
May 30th, 2007 at 9:20 pm
Read on Hardware zone that they were planning to drop the lawsuit for a meagre 3.5k
The question I would ask is why so little when the total amount sueable would be way beyond that.
I’m thinking that Odex really doesn’t want to have this made public fr it would really bring up a lot of questions
May 30th, 2007 at 9:23 pm
Hmm.. I migrated from Malaysia to Singapore ( now a PR here) 9 years ago, now serving in the NS. Initially I never had a plan to go back, but now, I would have to reconsider.
May 30th, 2007 at 9:26 pm
Heh, I lived in South Africa for about 18 years then came here to do NS.
The anime community there is still growing, slow but growing and yet to hear this kind of news in a country in SG is really sad.
Having been to a reasonable number of gatherings and the like in various places, Odex really is screwing themselves over…
I feel a Boycott coming along…
May 30th, 2007 at 9:27 pm
@ Jimmy
…Now that sounds like bribing to me. Trying extort money now since they’re not doing so well?
May 30th, 2007 at 9:29 pm
I know DM, maybe I am, but I almost died in NS. Blame me for being hyper after a near death experience.
I have a huge collection of legit anime/game items, from books, dvds, magazines, figures heck even posters. All my own hard earned cash.
The sad fact is that alot of us still rely on fansubs for quality anime. heck, these days I go raw even, as my Jap improves. The problem is decent Anime will never air in Singapore because of censorship laws. I find it pointless.
ODEX knows full well why their profit is dropping. The way they treat the fanbase is disgusting. Their public relations is non-existant and they don’t even show for events. Now they show an ‘Upgrading-in-progress’ page for the past what… 2 weeks!? is their web designers and IT department being paid to sleep on the job?
Sure, they held a discussion, trying to appear sincere to the community, but thats just a front. Our gripes get no where. I agree on the part its hard to give good releases due to money issues, but look at every video store now and count all the ODEX released stuff in bargain bins.
I bought some of the VCDs to see for myself how bad the quality was, I say I just wasted 100 bucks. The subs were horrible and inaccurate, it doesn’t take a genius in Japanese to figure out how WRONG the ‘translation’ is.
I’ve given up on ODEX. I’ve preordered the R1 Haruhi, I look forward to it. At least I know I’d get something in a good package and no censorship.
I’m also not kidding about the other Japanese stuff getting controlled by censorship laws here. Most of you who get taiwanese or japanese manga will know what I’m pointing at. They’re next on the kill list, being an otaku in Singapore is not worth it and stressful.
I went toa doujin convention in Japan once, after that I almost didn’t want to come back to Singapore. Now I’m set, if things don’t improve here in the next few months when I ROD, I’m leaving.
May 30th, 2007 at 9:30 pm
@ ethreal
Frankly speaking, I think so too. Which is prolly why we haven’t seen anything public yet.
May 30th, 2007 at 9:32 pm
“Read on Hardware zone that they were planning to drop the lawsuit for a meagre 3.5k”
Really? Could I get a link please?
“I hope the ice caps melt soon, then all ships will use the shorter northern sea route and Singapore can be reduced to its isolated control hell.”
ROFLMAO. Now this is one pissed off anime fan. Overreacting maybe, but he also says that he buys legit DVDs, so perhaps fansubs is his source of sampling the goods before buying them, this sounds fair.
I myself being fairly new to the anime scene, finds this a very unfortunate turn of events, streams seems to the only option left for us. Just when I was being to enjoy Gurren Lagann and Lovely Complex. GG indeed. Been fun though. So any body grabbing Lucky Star ep 08?
May 30th, 2007 at 9:34 pm
Lol,my classmates were all going WTFWTF during lesson time,when I showed them this post. Anyway,I suspect a certain ISP(look at the letter) is giving out the private info of their users. My friend also got a warning letter for downloading last year,and guess what his ISP was.
That’s why I’m sticking with my current ISP and never ever going to use S*****t.
May 30th, 2007 at 9:35 pm
Every one of us who has to do NS would be downright pissed. After ‘contributing’ to the country, we find that a local company is screwing us over and the MDA is being a bigger jerk then ever.
I like the LS mangas, they’re just as funny, if not more.
May 30th, 2007 at 9:38 pm
Here ya go
http://forums.hardwarezone.com/showthread.php?t=1625856&page=11&pp=15
if it messes up, it should be on page 11 of the thread
@ Silverwolf X
I know what you mean dude, NS has it’s low points but not all the time
Seeing as fansubs and raws are the only way to preview any new and incoming anime, Odex just fails…
Most folks who support the anime industry DL fansubs to check how good it is. Heck even I do yet i still but / import the actual DVD if it’s good.
May 30th, 2007 at 9:41 pm
“Every one of us who has to do NS would be downright pissed. After ‘contributing’ to the country, we find that a local company is screwing us over and the MDA is being a bigger jerk then ever”
Indeed. I myself look back and laugh during those wasted 2 years. One more thing to add the already growing list of the number of things you hate about our lovely island.
May 30th, 2007 at 9:42 pm
There are chinese streaming video sites similar to youtube.com. One example would be http://www.ouou.com. If you guys don’t mind practicing your rusty Chinese language skills, there are plenty of chinese subbed anime. Heck, I watched 80% of my anime from there. The downside is the sucky buffering speed, but it’s better than using torrents yeah?
May 30th, 2007 at 9:50 pm
now really, so are we really gonna keep quiet about this?
It’s pointless to keep ranting on and on. But it is a very big step that odex’s scam is brought out large.
Tsubaki was warned to shut up about his post, but i doubt they can do anything now seeing that almost all bloggers are talked about this.
And hell, the guy who scanned the letter really hit the spot. I always get a feeling odex wanted to hide this witch-hunt, weirdly. Like they are treating us as a game. But one of thier hunts screamed. and it brought many waves; i wonder how many anime fans in singapore saw that letter already.
Cuz if they do, they will hate odex and odex gets nuts for dinner in a few years time.
I was thinking of posting this in Stomp forum of straits times. but no oh well. being the very suppressed citizen of this fucking place. it’s safer not to do so cuz i dun want my ass whipped.
And what silverwolf x said. it’s VERY VERY true. If you think you are living in a very colorful place, think again.
May 30th, 2007 at 9:51 pm
Which is why, filmmakers in the states make millions, while our local ones are coughing out blood. Being an artist in Singapore, no matter what media, is a hell vocation. Asian arts hub my foot.
@Jimmy
Lowpoints are 95% for me the last 1 year and 7 months. I spend every morning coughing blood and vomitting, half the time I’ll faint from effects of low blood pressure and sleeping pills, yes, I’ve had a slight sleep disorder since puberty, of which I normally overcome by sleeping in. My future job only starts at 12 pm anyways. I already lost count the number of times I was hospitalized and I won’t even want to talk about the incident where I almsot died.
Off topic:
Anyone bought the recent art collection from Kazue Yamamoto (aka the studio eGo! artist)? I’ll bet MDA will have a blast with it. Heck, there are even hgame guidebooks available in kinokuniya these days. I love Kino.
May 30th, 2007 at 9:55 pm
It would be quite funny if one of the people threatened with a lawsuit buys from Odex but still downloads fansubs anyway for reasons of speed. Wouldn’t he feel completely betrayed…
In any case I think (I hope) Odex is smart enough to ease on this before it backfires on them because,
1) US currency is at a low. Discounts + bulk shipping costs make prices of R1 more than decent. Japanese yen is at low too. It’s so easy to buy stuff dvds direct from Japan with Amazon/CDJapan around. If I had to pay just a bit more to get much better quality DVDs I would. I already buy R1 movies even though local R3s are cheaper just for the extras and better quality. I have R1 and R4 Australia anime because the quality and packaging is simply so much better.
2) Even if Odex improves its quality of releases, I would never buy from them if this sort of action towards fans persists. My main gripe with Odex is with the lack of DVD releases and poor packaging. My level of Japanese is sufficient to the point where I do not need subtitles for understanding content. What I want is decent video/sound quality. But turn me off and it’s a potential customer lost forever.
May 30th, 2007 at 10:00 pm
It’s good to know folks who live in Japan ^.^