Apocalypse now
Taken from RIUVA. So Odex has finally done it. Singapore’s anime community is doomed. Oh shit. So anyway some poor guy probably wet his pants after receiving this letter.
WTF zOMG H4X!
BTW the organization mentioned in the letter AVPAS (Anti-Piracy Association of Singapore) is similar to the RIAA/RIAS except that Odex appears to be the sole active member. The organization has obtained authorizations from various Japanese studios to represent their rights for all their copyrighted works, even those that are not licensed by Odex for distribution in Singapore. The full list of titles can be found on their website.
Read on for my thoughts.
That said, I am very, very curious as to how Odex, a private entity, managed to obtain personal data from the ISPs based on purely circumstantial evidences. As far as I can see from the AVPAS member list, there is zero indication that it is anything but a private organization. It is related to neither the police nor the relevant government agencies. Therefore, it is the anime equivalent of the RIAA.
However, RIAA, as mighty and powerful as it appears to be, is not able to obtain any personal information from American ISPs directly. It has to do it through the court. That means that it has to first start the legal procedures before the court issues a subpoena that forces the ISP to reveal the identity of the defender and summons the person to court. The defenders in these lawsuits are given the generic name “John Doe” because their names are undisclosed by their ISPs until after the court subpoena. In such cases, the first letter received by the poor sob should be from his own ISP informing him of the existence of such a subpoena for his identity.
The above letter is addressed to the person himself and was sent directly by Odex. This means that Odex, without first going through any legal proceedings, is able to obtain personal information directly from the ISPs using only the IP address. That is insane if you consider the amount of invasive power that has been put into the hands of private company and the potential for abuse by individuals with their personal agendas.
You know, there’s a certain someone whom I really hate on a certain forum. I will fake produce a record of his IP address illegally torrenting a picture that I once drew during a particularly boring physics lecture. I shall then e-mail this “proof” to Singnet and ask for this person’s home address. And if that doesn’t work, I’ll go spend a few bucks to register a company to make the request seem more legitimate…
Of course Odex is a legitimate company that is trying to protect its rights under the current intellectual property rights law (flawed as it may be). But my point is that if a private entity can obtain such information without the prior knowledge of the people involved and without the authority of the court, then what exactly in our legal system is protecting our privacy from abuse by some unscrupulous characters? And if such protection of personal privacy does indeed exist, what exactly allows Odex to bypass it?
Then again, I’m not well-versed with the local legal system. Maybe our privacy laws are really that screwed up. Oh well.
Read this excellent explanation of the “RIAA vs. John Doe” lawsuits, particularly the sections on “How the RIAA identifies the people they sue” and “The Lawsuit Begins”, and compare it to what Odex is apparently authorized to do. Doesn’t RIAA look like the better alternative?
So what are your remaining options for your weekly anime fix?
- Direct download sites
- Obscure Chinese Bittorrent trackers
- XDCC bots on IRC
- Download raws off Winny/Share
- Move to Japan
- Find a job at Odex
Alternatively, find a safer hobby like playing pirated computer games or serial jaywalking.
June 3rd, 2007 at 1:32 am
Wow that’s a shit load of comments. Oh, most of them were shit too.
Like Mr “I’m migrating but oops I’ve got NS”. I don’t think we’ll miss you.
Anyway, at the risk of sounding like a school teacher, why in the world is 17 year old Darkmirage making the vast majority of you guys here look like monkeys from the zoo?
Could we stop overreacting and spewing vitrolic bile while the ST just flicks the “delete” button on your precious emails?
June 3rd, 2007 at 1:58 am
Dunno whether this is posted but:
http://ckwiz.blogspot.com/2007/06/i-emailed-straits-times-journalist.html
This guy sounds damn serious
June 3rd, 2007 at 3:24 am
@holybell84 I don’t know man. Anyone who uses autoplay music on their blog is a moron.
The world is coming to an end, evident with the glamorous display of stupidity here.
June 3rd, 2007 at 3:52 am
If you want to download fansubs, move to another country: it isn’t as hard as it sounds….If you can’t speak japanese, Hong Kong is a pretty good place to move to. No crappy government monopolised ISPs either…
June 3rd, 2007 at 6:38 am
DarkMirage - “Wherever they obtain their license from, someone has to translate and dub for Animax. That someone is Odex. Even some R1 productions are outsourced to Odex.”
I believe Animax has its own trans and dubbing team, and I don’t think they’re based here. Of course, I could be wrong. :)
June 3rd, 2007 at 6:56 am
Ekard - “I believe there is a little too much of us people putting down Odex from our perspectives, simply because we’re thinking from our point of view and our losses and not considering about Odex’s concerns from their point of view.”
I agree, but Odex doesn’t see things that way. The fact that they can dismiss customer complaints - that the product is poor, which as an ex-customer I tend to agree - as mere perception problem says a lot about how high-handed they are. Some shopowners I spoke to also talks of how Odex takes offense at them selling DVDs/VCDs not belonging to Odex - especially parallel imports. And this is regardless of whether Odex has the license for the offending shows or not.
Odex needs to realise that to have a market, you need to help it grow. And the only way that can happen is to engage the fans rather than antagonise them. Unfortunately, you get the feeling that those running the anime scene here don’t understand the fans - or worse, aren’t fans themselves. Odex may prefer to target the casual anime viewer, but as those in this industry know, it’s the hardcore people - the otaku- who are willing to splash out on the latest limited edition DVD or collectible. Yes, these folks watch fansubs, but they are also the first to pay hundreds for original (well packaged and subbed) DVD box sets, or go on a shopping spree when in Akihabara.
And by the way, Singapore’s market is small and insignificant to the Japanese. But I doubt they’re impressed either when they have to deal with local businesses people in this line who think only of profiting from this growing content businesses, without showing any understanding of the medium or its fans. :)
June 3rd, 2007 at 7:01 am
Geez, read my own posts and realised all the typos and whatnot in them…. about time I hit the sack. :)
June 3rd, 2007 at 8:22 am
Theres no doubt that the fansubbers who modify and distribute anime are infringing on copyright. However it is harder to say so for the people who download them.
If the downloaders are infringing on copyright, the same can be said for every person who every used a VCR. Recording any show on TV would be a copyright infringement. Then all the VCR producing companies can be sued for making products whose primary purpose is illegal.
June 3rd, 2007 at 8:28 am
@wakki
I think just using a VCR does not means u are infringing on copyright; recording then distributing is.
June 3rd, 2007 at 8:36 am
forgotten to add tat like downloading anime, downloadin’ something that does not original belong to us or broadcast locally also counts.
June 3rd, 2007 at 9:45 am
Love and Peace. Right now, all of us could do with a good dose of love and peace. For oHaruhi’s sake, everyone. Just chill. Think logically, think reasonably.
I don’t know how many times this has been repeated. I’ve lost count because it gets lost in the midst of well-meaning, anxious, over-reacting posts.
We need to talk. Sure, ODEX sucks. Tell them in their face. Obviously it has been established that they are so incompetent that they don’t know a blog with good, critical comments on the net. What makes you think that a whole bunch of whining posts on the comments section will get their attention? They got the rights and laws on their side. All we have is a moral argument and it isn’t that moral in the first place.
Talk to them! I’m sure some of you have their contacts. I know I do. Go organize a forum (not the internet type) with them and force every single bloody grievances you have in their face! Rather than waiting for them to ‘engage the fans’, we should bring the fight to them.
Now, please stop behaving like /b/tards. This is a respected anime blog and lets behave like the Well Cultured Anonymous we should be.
June 3rd, 2007 at 9:54 am
@Komiker;
The problem is that ODEX doesn’t listen. They’ve been in the business for years now and the quality of their works are going downhill rather than uphill. What is this? We fans want to spend money on crap? No. We want the good stuff. If they have not listened to the fans for so long, what makes you think they will now - especially since they’re hard pressed to sue people to recoup losses. That’s just dirty.
If the fans are not significant enough to initiate change, then the public should be sufficient, yes? Once word gets out to the public about their lackluster performance over their monopoly over the industry, they’ll have no choice but to initiate change. People will soon look at ODEX products as pieces of thrash and just chuck them aside for the pirated ones. They’re cheaper. They’re better. They’re worth the MONEY. If word gets out to their respective partners - even better! They’ll know how much of a crap job their partner’s been doing and break off most, if not all, business ties with said company. That’ll destroy ODEX.
If ODEX doesn’t want to listen, we’ll make them.
June 3rd, 2007 at 10:22 am
Reply:
Most of you all are just talking without thinking for once, the other side of the issue. You don’t make them listen by whining here or boycotting them. They probably don’t make enough sales in the first place for a boycott to make an impact. No, that won’t make them listen. That’s just more incentives for them to issue more letters of surprise. It’s dirty but it’s legal. Moral arguments are worth nuts in Singapore.
And no. You do NOT want to destroy them. Not until another alternative comes along. Look at that membership list on AVPAS, look at all that potential we can tap into it. ODEX is in a damn good position to help the damn industry grow if they want to AND if the fanbase just stop and listen for a while. Destroy them and we lose all these contacts. Destroy them and we lose the only player in the industry with the capability of doing some real good stuff as a whole. Think beyond this one company at the whole industry. I want the industry to grow, be better, bring in some idols and what not. Do you?
We need to engage them properly and see them face to face. And we know that there are people and lurkers reading this that can do it. Gather the most important people with a say and go talk to them. I will throw in my support if you approach me.
June 3rd, 2007 at 10:26 am
Most of you need to back up your horses and stop bringing so self-righteous.
Please take note that fansubs, under the Berne Convention, was illegal, is illegal, and will continue to be an infingement unless the Convention is rectified. However, the majority of us here were able to download anime till now, largely because there was no enforcement. No legal enforcement does not means legality to download, it just meant it was safe to download.
In ‘NS context’, for those unable to digest, it was a privilege, not an entitlement.
That doesn’t mean I am not sore. I am pissed, irritated, frustrated and a whole list of other emotions that I will spare you the agony of having to read. However, I am mature enough to appreciate the fact that till now, a letter addressed to my innocent father, who has completely no idea of what an anime constitutes, has not been sent out.
Those of you casual anime fans, who keep using excuses like helping Singapore become an animation hub, sub-quality ODEX anime releases, please kindly stop your rant, and stop moulding these excuses for your own personal benefits. If you are sincere about supporting anime, there are ways for you to do so. I am sure if you ask nicely enough, darkmirage or any of the other anime bloggers would kindly inform you of ways to get LEGAL anime releases.
So for those who are still complaining about not getting their free, illegal, daily fix of anime, kindly shut up. It does not take a microscope, nor high intellect to see that even if there are avenues for you to support with tangible means, you still would not. So, if you still wanna get your daily fix, carry on with the downloads and risk the implication, or be like the many dozens out there including me, stop altogether, wait for coast to clear before popping out of our tiny holes in the ground. And frankly speaking, your rant looks like a tiny little crying kid who just got his pacifier taken away forcefully, and it hurts my eyes.
June 3rd, 2007 at 11:00 am
This is nuts. I’ve spent thousands of dollars on importing just a few series of R2 dvds from japan and some local company thinks I should get their’s instead? The fact that I rather buy from the original Japan companies paints a rather big picture.
To those who think that we should buy the original stuff just based on reading anime news and not fansubs, who are they kidding?? Such reviews are subjective at most and they expect to pay money based on such varied suggestions?? And they forget about the one major point: The Japanese don’t usually buy Dvds because of recommendation by mouth, they get to watch the animes on TV first before they know what they want to buy. How can we be compared to them? Odex fails in marketing anime to us and getting fansubs is one good (not necessary the right) way for us to finding out what to buy, that’s how I bought mine.
It’s not fair that we must pay to watch everything we want to watch. Animes are just tv programmes shown on tv for the masses in Japan. We don’t even have any tv channel here to show all of them (and don’t talk to me about Kids Central). If Odex catches pple based on the programmes they air here and the “dvds” they sell here, I have nothing to say, but they are basing on an unfair (and very grammatically incorrect) list by some AVPAS???
I have to admit that downloading stuff is illegal but even if we are caught, shouldn’t we be answering to the original anime makers themselves? I don’t know anything about law, but shouldn’t copyright infringement be a larger concern? Most offenders probably download for themselves and there’s no proof that they are distributing it (except for p2p). Odex is not the one who made the animes, we are not ripping their “dvds”, how can we be forced to compensate them at all? If they are basing on licenses, they have to prove it and that they are selling the animes on the list. They also have to prove that the Japanese are pushing them for such action.
The integrity of internet usage is a very grey area, even in countries like America. Anime is but one of the many many dubious usages of internet. If Odex blows this up anymore, we may end up having to BAN INTERNET. (wat? catch all the anime watchers! War Kao, let us all SABO the music and movie and software downloaders in singapore and see wat happens!)