Apocalypse now
Taken from RIUVA. So Odex has finally done it. Singapore’s anime community is doomed. Oh shit. So anyway some poor guy probably wet his pants after receiving this letter.
WTF zOMG H4X!
BTW the organization mentioned in the letter AVPAS (Anti-Piracy Association of Singapore) is similar to the RIAA/RIAS except that Odex appears to be the sole active member. The organization has obtained authorizations from various Japanese studios to represent their rights for all their copyrighted works, even those that are not licensed by Odex for distribution in Singapore. The full list of titles can be found on their website.
Read on for my thoughts.
That said, I am very, very curious as to how Odex, a private entity, managed to obtain personal data from the ISPs based on purely circumstantial evidences. As far as I can see from the AVPAS member list, there is zero indication that it is anything but a private organization. It is related to neither the police nor the relevant government agencies. Therefore, it is the anime equivalent of the RIAA.
However, RIAA, as mighty and powerful as it appears to be, is not able to obtain any personal information from American ISPs directly. It has to do it through the court. That means that it has to first start the legal procedures before the court issues a subpoena that forces the ISP to reveal the identity of the defender and summons the person to court. The defenders in these lawsuits are given the generic name “John Doe” because their names are undisclosed by their ISPs until after the court subpoena. In such cases, the first letter received by the poor sob should be from his own ISP informing him of the existence of such a subpoena for his identity.
The above letter is addressed to the person himself and was sent directly by Odex. This means that Odex, without first going through any legal proceedings, is able to obtain personal information directly from the ISPs using only the IP address. That is insane if you consider the amount of invasive power that has been put into the hands of private company and the potential for abuse by individuals with their personal agendas.
You know, there’s a certain someone whom I really hate on a certain forum. I will fake produce a record of his IP address illegally torrenting a picture that I once drew during a particularly boring physics lecture. I shall then e-mail this “proof” to Singnet and ask for this person’s home address. And if that doesn’t work, I’ll go spend a few bucks to register a company to make the request seem more legitimate…
Of course Odex is a legitimate company that is trying to protect its rights under the current intellectual property rights law (flawed as it may be). But my point is that if a private entity can obtain such information without the prior knowledge of the people involved and without the authority of the court, then what exactly in our legal system is protecting our privacy from abuse by some unscrupulous characters? And if such protection of personal privacy does indeed exist, what exactly allows Odex to bypass it?
Then again, I’m not well-versed with the local legal system. Maybe our privacy laws are really that screwed up. Oh well.
Read this excellent explanation of the “RIAA vs. John Doe” lawsuits, particularly the sections on “How the RIAA identifies the people they sue” and “The Lawsuit Begins”, and compare it to what Odex is apparently authorized to do. Doesn’t RIAA look like the better alternative?
So what are your remaining options for your weekly anime fix?
- Direct download sites
- Obscure Chinese Bittorrent trackers
- XDCC bots on IRC
- Download raws off Winny/Share
- Move to Japan
- Find a job at Odex
Alternatively, find a safer hobby like playing pirated computer games or serial jaywalking.
May 31st, 2007 at 12:31 am
What to do? Goverment wants this, we can’t do shit to stop it from happening.
May 31st, 2007 at 12:47 am
Why did no one mention anything about those who own the DVDs but choose to download fansubs anyway. There is possible no basis to sue them since they already paid for the product. It’s just like a shoplifter that can claim forgetfulness and choose to pay up for stolen products and still get away scott-free.
May 31st, 2007 at 12:49 am
Even if boycotts are not successful in the past, we shall make it successful now, ODEX is obviously digging their own graves ever since they have sent the letters out, no doubt the other recipients have shared it with their friends, though it didnt blow as big as this one since no one dared or even wanted to post it out loud.
Finally came riuva and he blew this thing wide open, enrages most if not whole of the Singapore Anime community, which is also where ODEX gets their customers from. If they cant earn money from people, they will eventually fail to support themselves.
Profit targeting is okay, but if you dont care about customer feedbacks, you’re no better than a robber…
May 31st, 2007 at 1:09 am
So far is there word of many such letters has sent to such individuals? How many came forward and shed light on this matter? A little slow for this noob.
May 31st, 2007 at 1:13 am
Of course, in the end the law is the law. But remember one thing, laws are made and not set in stone. Most laws are set by lawmakers and organizations anyway, not the common people. Common people believe in justice, but they can only get that through the law, which is controlled by the ones that set it in the first place.
Boycotting will work in that ODEX will lose fan support and gain bad karma, but the hardcore make a minority, the averages masses will still buy ODEX’s stuff, simply because well, they don’t know any better, and next, they don’t have a choice, ODEX holds the monoply on local Anime distro rights.
A fine example will be Sony Europe recently and the forced closure of Lik-sang. I’m not european but I’m pissed all the same. Sony Europe had just pissed off their local fanbase, but they did what they did, citing local region control laws. Did that stop europeans from modding and importing still? Nope. Of course, those not in the know were burnt and well, the anger there still persists.
Its fine to control your market and protect your property rights, but overdoing it or crossing certain ‘barriers’ in the WRONG way will make you the loser.
They say fansubs are illegal, but fansubs have existed since VHS Tape subbing days were theyw ere distributed by post! the LAW says it illegal because it infringes on copyright laws.
But look at it this way:
Fansubbers don’t ask us to pay them, they do so at their own expense and time to spread the love of Anime and in turn, expand the interest of a medium outside its home country.
Piracy on the other hand, is a lame ass way by some people who are out for easy money at the EXPENSE of companies.
Of course, my argument is moot, because companies will cite that we didn’t pay for the Anime which rights are owned by the company. In the meantime, Japanese watch it and record it on their TVs for free with HDD recorders. The crime is not that, but its the distroing of the recorded medium after that, which then ends in the hands of people who want to watch them, and the people who will sub the raws and let the people who want to watch enjoy it like the Japanese counterparts.
Of course in Japan, commercials on TV provide revenue, fansubs don’t come with ads, so theres no revenue.
Some Japanese companies are actually releasing R2 dvds with english subs, but its still a minority.
Then comes the next problem, every country has its own tolerence of censorship. Singapore wants to be an asian art hub, but is getting more conservetive every f**king day. This means all the anime and local published manga we get will be cut, edited and mutilated. Why? Because a bunch of old fogies and conservetist closet cases decide its bad for us. If I had a chance I’d tell this pricks to keep their views to their f**king
selves. Of course, they’d say the same to me.
In the end, for one to appreciate anime and manga and the otaku culture fully, you have to live in Japan.
I find it ironic in a world were the internet supposedly allows freedom of opinions, governments and organizations start trying to control it and suppress people.
In the end, whats the point of Internet if we live in fear that what we decide to do on it can get us f**ked left, right and centre?
May 31st, 2007 at 1:27 am
Forgot to post this just now:
http://www.varietyasiaonline.com/content/view/1436/53/
With new IP laws in Japan pretty soon online distribution of all digital content will be legal provided the online providers pay a loyalty fee.
So enjoy your game while it lasts Odex. Your days are numbered.
May 31st, 2007 at 1:35 am
I like the reasoning.
Its the same reason why Americans won’t see the majority of crossover game games like Super Robot Taisen and Chaos Wars.
Too many permissions to get!
IP laws need to be overhauled, if not the companies are screwing themselves over, as fans, fed up with all politicing and controls start finding other ways to get their stuff fast and without the mess.
May 31st, 2007 at 1:49 am
It’s inevitable that copyright laws will change.
It’s just absurd to think that in five more years people will still be willing to pay for music and movies in the form that they are currently being distributed in, especially when you consider the rate at which internet connection speed and storage medium capacity increases. Illegal or not, how the hell are poorly enforceable laws going to be able to stop millions of people from downloading anything they want if their gigabit lines allow them to download an entire movie in minutes?
And if that can’t happen, then the only logical alternative is to make file-sharing legal and rework the whole outdated industry model to face the new reality that has been created not by anyone’s intention but by the natural progression of technology.
But until the inevitable change happens, people with vested interests will try their hardest to resist any change. Because they know that their way of conducting business will no longer be viable in the new paradigm, but they have been doing it for far too long already and they have no idea how make money in any other way.
Mark my words: Someone will figure out how to continue to make music and anime profitable even when the laws are eventually changed and downloading is legalized (as it must inevitably be). But I doubt that it will be RIAA or Odex. Their mindsets have already been cast in steel and it will take a new generation to adapt the industry for the future that Internet has brought upon our doorsteps.
Too bad for them, I guess.
May 31st, 2007 at 1:52 am
It’s not that US companies find it troublesome to get the licenses to do crossover games. Rather it’s not worth them getting the licenses because there is no way they can break even and yet still charge a reasonable price for the game.
May 31st, 2007 at 1:55 am
Word. They also have to seriously consider what it means to have an international audience for something - and one that is ‘net-savvy’, can find the latest and does want the latest.
I don’t know to what extent the’ll change though - between hearing about anti-doujin stuff and that link from just now, I can’t decide exactly. Anyway that link doesn’t say it’s definitely changing. To quote: “The rule changes are expected to go into effect within two years.” Expected to? Hm… I’m just being cynical but don’t count me surprised if it doesn’t quite happen. And a lot can happen in 2 years, I think. Hm.
In unrelated news anime is disappearing off niconico (and being frantically reuploaded in sections). I guess it was just a matter of time, but I hope they still have the stuff that comes up an hour after the show airs so I can see it - they can then go and delete it. I’d honestly find some way to pay for a legitimate online streaming service to watch unsubtitled Japanese anime, really. But when I remember Bandai Channel closing off foreign access to viewing their videos, I wonder why they did it. (Surely it isn’t a matter of bandwidth for the older paid videos?)
May 31st, 2007 at 2:04 am
The thing is that copyright laws as they are now are not prepared for the Internet. They are outdated. As a result of this, a lot of the potentially good things that Internet can achieve cannot currently happen, at least not in a legal form that is profitable for a company.
Bandai Channel is probably forced to block foreign viewers because it will compete with the products of Bandai’s oversea distributors. But the sad reality is that those oversea distributors are on their way to becoming obsolete because now such easily-digitized intellectual products can carter to a global audience directly through the net. It is entirely feasible now in terms of technology.
But sadly an outdated set of intellectual property laws, an outdated business model and a lack of international cooperation due to national interests all play a part in preventing that from happening for Bandai Channel and nothing will change for the better until the laws change.
May 31st, 2007 at 2:19 am
They closed up for the simple reason of region control laws and different censorship laws.
ODEX is digging their own graves, this much we know.
If censorship laws are to change in Singapore, we’d have to wait for the last generation to die off, then unbrainwash the current generation. Not worth the time, its faster to just migrate.
The internet is changing, and many are trying to control it. Consumers however, will continue to fight back to get what they want.
What pisses me off most is that, unlike American licensors, that have taken legal action, but then offered what they promised a few months later, ODEX has in the past few years not lived up to their promises, and MDA is just being more of a pain in the neck lately as well.
otaku in Singapore are a patient lot, we have put up with crappy broadcasted Anime, crap quality VCD sets and bootleg DVDs, we waited, and waited, we voiced what we wanted.
We want quality, we want no censorship, we want presentable and lasting packaging, we want special promotions and bundles, we want up to date and constant interaction and information, we even gave em hints from ‘templetes’ in the form of pointing at fansubs and their quality of subbing and the effort in accuracy, R2 dvds and their encoding quality, R1 dvds and their packaging and marketing as well as respect for the medium in not censoring anything and giving the fans a complete product.
ODEX didn’t deliver. MDA went more mental with censorship and now this crap. seriously, downloading fansubs is harmless and actually promotes the medium, its not like we’re surfing the net to learn to make nukes, conduct terrorist activities and insigate racism and religious spats (CONTROL THOSE instead you policing freaks!), we just want to watch and enjoy our f**king Anime the way we want it. Presentable, accurate in translation, encoded well and uncensored!
The dam has burst. The Otaku are angry and frustrated. Good luck appeasing us.
Word.
May 31st, 2007 at 3:57 am
The laws are not just outdated; they are biased towards the copyright holders.
In any case, aren’t we getting a little too worked up here? I mean, the situation here is changing, but until we see what comes after the storm, ranting and threatening migration (ooh, so scary) is not going to help matters. What is needed here would be rational minds looking for solutions to this impasse, rather than running away from the problem. Yes, migration is NOT a solution; eventually the copyright laws will reach you, whichever country you migrate to.
Lastly, let’s think of the pain as short-term; after all, if Odex clamps down hard without any noticeable change in their strategy; then they’re headed for failure and doom. Otherwise, if they really brush up on their products and actually heed our advice, it would be good for us isn’t it? Either way we win.
The only way for society to progress would be through compromise and understanding. Perhaps there really IS a silver lining behind this cloud. We’ll never know, until we officially hear from Odex, and AVPAS itself. No point crying over spilt milk, let’s move on from here and see what can be done instead.
May 31st, 2007 at 4:11 am
They’re assuming that thanks to the internet providing anime for free, we’re not going to actually spend money on buying stuff. Which is a lose-lose situation since then the benefits of promotion as provided by fansubs will be null.
Now of course there are counter-examples - but there are many examples as well. For all the local fans who DO buy stuff (DM, etc.), there are also those who will want to save money by only watching free things. Some of them will never buy stuff anyway so the current actions wouldn’t work against them.
But as I see it they’re trying to aim at the ‘middle’ - those whose decision of purchase is clearly nullified when it is available online (e.g. casual? fans who might say “eh this anime looks interesting, where to find the rest?” and instead of instinctively a. looking on the net or b. buying pirated copies, they would rent it or buy it)
The thing is I don’t think anyone has any statistics on how much that don’t-buy-but-would percentage is and whether people actually will buy stuff because of fansub promotion (hence proving the effectiveness of fansubs and the argument that we should be able to view them). And I doubt there will be.
Furthermore it’s hard to change the mindset of those who have found BT even though they *may* have potentially bought legal stuff, because as everyone already knows Odex doesn’t leave a good impression. => if Odex doesn’t do an Extreme Makeover they still won’t buy much if it sucks. (even if there is no alternative?)
Result: not much of an increase in sales.
Plus there are the other group of people whose decision of purchase will ONLY happen if it is available online for preview first (such as myself, with v. rare exceptions)
But perhaps the other ‘benefit’ of this is that by taking such an action they are actually reassuring potential business partners. Isn’t it possible? Investors or companies or whatever don’t want to deal with .sg because there’s too much downloading/pirating going on, hence they got no chance to make money off their own goods. By doing this they may snag more deals. At what cost though? Will they end up selling more poorly because of lack of fansubs? This is the best time to see it as an example if they really scare off a LOT of people from dling.
Really this has been discussed to death and resurrected more times than necessary all over the interwebs but now it’s taken on an Urgent Perspective because it appears to be happening before our eyes.
But then you realise all the arguing you did on the net, no matter how salient it is, gets kinda useless when you get the letter and are faced with the Real Deal.
uber-long comments are making this place look too pretentious! Next time will summarize la.
May 31st, 2007 at 5:41 am
well, if its 3.5k, that i can afford, so, downloads away, but please, i’d rather not pay that amount, and although i do not buy dvds, and figurines, although i was considering buying figurines. I do buy novels, and its because of fansubs, both shana and zero no tsukaima, that i’m reading the novels, inspite of my horrendous chinese.
and well, i would buy the dvds too, if they were good, but so far, all the negative reviews from you guys, still turns me off.
like that how to support?