Doremi-Fansubs = AnimeJunkies v2.0
Here is a note to all fansub groups: Please make sure that your translator actually speaks Japanese! And please make sure that you have at least one other team member on the project who speaks Japanese so that he/she can make sure that the translator isn’t pretending to know Japanese by making random guesses and checking Babelfish!
NEVER TRUST YOUR TRANSLATORS WITHOUT SEEKING A SECOND OPINION!!! (I was one. I know what we do.)
Now here’s a sad, sad example of a “fansub” gone horribly wrong. The following translations are from Doremi-OTOME’s fansub of Mai-Otome DVD Special 8. The torrent can be found here (way at the bottom).
The translator is very cunning. He sounds like he knows what he’s talking about. But really, I am not certain if he even speaks a single word of Japanese after watching this piece of wombat dung.
Evidence 1
Sounds like reasonable translation? Well here’s what Mai really said in that exact scene:
私、家出同然と学園に来ちゃったんだけど、
I entered the school after running away from home,
運良く援助してくれるお家があって
luckily there was a family who offered to help me
Wow! That sounds like a completely different story now, doesn’t it?!?! How the fuck did the translator miss SO HARD that he nearly landed in a totally whole new continent! Imagine if I didn’t know Japanese and believed in this asshat’s lies. He’s creating a whole new anime with his “translations”.
Evidence 2
Again, this sounds completely reasonable doesn’t it? Well SURPRISE!!!
みんな良い人達だったし、何より条件が破格なくらいよかったのよ。
Everyone was so nice to me and the conditions were just too good.
Wow. Another brilliant translation. I can’t even figure out which word he might have mistaken to produce “trouble”, so I conclude that the translator just made the whole thing up out of thin air. Please also notice that the translator is using present tense. I guess the editor went fishing too, huh?
Evidence 3
最初は逃げようともしたんだけどね、
I tried escaping at first,
その度に捕まっちゃって
but I got caught everytime.
The meaning is changed, but hey, at least he got all the keywords right! CHEERS!!!
Evidence 4
でまぁ、毎日この子とこの谷で過ごしているうちに
So, during the time I spent in this valley together with her, I unknowingly…
うちに？
Unknowingly?
すっかり馴染んでしまいました
I got attached to her completely.
お前という奴は昔から全く変わっていない
You have not changed a bit since then.
I must confess that my translation for the second line isn’t very accurate.
うちに (uchi ni) is used to mean “within a period of time”.
うち (uchi) means “house”.
The translator, in his infinite wisdom, confused the two and just went along with it even though it makes no fucking sense if you stop and think about it for even 1 nanosecond.
The last line is even more hilarious. The translator confused 変わる (kawaru) with かわいい (kawaii) and the meaning of the sentence was TOTALLY RAPED in the most gruesome and inhuman manner possible. For the love of Haruhi and all that is good, what kind of “Japanese translator” confuses “to change” with “cute”!?
Maybe he’s really just a narutard who knows nothing but “NEKO NEKO KAWAII DESU”. Holy shit, I saved the best for the last!
Evidence 5
これは私にの挑戦ですか、氷雪の銀水晶。
Are you challenging me to battle, Silver Crystal of Ice?
あっ、いや・・・あの・・・
Ah, no…I didn’t…
ならばお相手しましょう
Very well, I accept.
Cool. I think this speaks for itself. The translator just had to screw up the funniest part of the video.
EDIT 2
Thanks for informing me that Ladholyman isn’t responsible for the mess up because he only translates from Chinese subs. You can read my follow-up here. But I’ll keep the remarks below for the sake of completeness and preserving history and all that jazz. Just imagine that I’m talking to the Chinese translator instead. :P
END EDIT
Mr. “Translator”: If you can’t figure out what they are saying, please be honest and tell the rest of your team. Your team members do not speak Japanese and trust you enough that they didn’t get a second translator to expose your little lies. You betrayed their trust. If you want to bullshit, at least do it with style like “Mass Naked Child Event” or something. Be creative!
Listen up fansub groups! DON’T let this guy translate anything! Not a single word! Not even if it’s in English!
The rest of those guys are probably cool, but Doremi deserves a good ass-kicking for not having a translation checker. Come on, it’s so fucking basic that it’s not even funny.
This has been a public service announcement brought to you by DarkMirage. I know if you’ve been naughty or good, so don’t even try to %$#%# around with me!
EDIT: I have to add that these are NOT the only mistakes in this 4:32 short video. And also, the first scene is relatively free of mistakes because it was taken from one of the main episodes, meaning the “translator” probably “borrowed” the translation.
August 30th, 2006 at 8:38 pm
@Valkyrie:
Personally I wouldn’t pick Lunar as an example of a group that does good QC. A better example would maybe be one of the etg groups like Soldats or The Triad, Anime-Kraze and Kaizoku-Fansubs.
Funny rant but ultimately very true. In the end it proved useful though, so it wasn’t all bad. I have nothing against Doremi. I’m grateful that they took it upon themselves to do Keroro Gunsou without feeling the need to go overboard with the typesetting(are you listening Soldats?) that’d probably not be of that much benefit to the viewer. A little note explaining the translation does the job, no need to spend months and months on it
August 30th, 2006 at 8:39 pm
Valkyrie: Ignoring the fact that you haven’t really read my comments, here are my replies:
It is true. I am too 1337.
It is also true that fansubs are competing for the torrent peer numbers. Translating from Chinese and Korean is a result of this battle of speed release. People don’t care if a translator translates faithfully. It’s easier to for a sub group to gain internet fame by speed subbing than by doing useless things like QC that people don’t even notice. I suck at speed translating. Fansubs don’t need me.
Doremi was lazy. It was minimum effort for free brownie points. Groups like Lunar can spend the time QC’ing and get no thanks for it. For an obscure release like the DVD Special, there’s no competition anyway. Since there’s no competition, who cares about QC? Everyone who wants to watch it has to download your version anyway. And they probably don’t speak Japanese either so it’s all good.
That’s laziness for you.
It’s only the truth. It hurts because people (or maybe I was the only one?!?!) trusted fansubs to at least get the general gist of the anime.
Wow. That’s exactly my point! Thanks for rephrasing it. They are both huge wastes of time, exactly what I said. :)
I think when the translation misses the mark by such a huge margin, it’s no longer a matter of quality, but whether it can be considered translation at all.
I agree 100%. :X
Thank you, and the same to you too.
I’m sorry, you are not my father. My father is dead.
August 30th, 2006 at 9:02 pm
Please note, I did not authorize the v2. There will be a v3.
August 30th, 2006 at 11:00 pm
^LOL
August 30th, 2006 at 11:12 pm
I just want to bump this post because we must reach the 100 mark. Keep it erect D M!
August 30th, 2006 at 11:27 pm
You fool! This isn’t 4chan! You can’t bump blog entries! gt2 /b/
August 30th, 2006 at 11:39 pm
Oh Boy…
Well I just only watch the Omake 8 in RAW… Didn’t touch Doremi-Otome Sub yet… Well if i can wait for the V3 after i see this :/.
Well guys, remember that only Doremi-Otome is the only team who continue something with Otome… Statics give up yet or something like this (I don’t have any news about what Static done after Omake 3) so be happy that you have some subs… Even if it’s incorrect… Real DVD will be good no? So don’t complain so much :/
That is my Opinions
Cheers .
And Thanks Dorémi-Otome for everything, even if problem or error continue…
August 31st, 2006 at 12:04 am
@DarkMirage: I’d like to thank you for inspiring me to do a full QC of one of Doremi’s releases. Judging from a lot of the other posts that people have made here, they all watch Strawberry Panic from them, so I’ll probably do that.
When I finish, do you want me to post the link to the PDF? It’ll be similar in format to those other PDF’s I linked to.
August 31st, 2006 at 12:49 am
Let me make some clarifications here. Disclaimer: I’m not nor ever was part of the otome DVD specials team, so my opinion may possibly differ from their’s.
“Doremi was lazy.”
I’d say this is partially true; the ones who wanted the special out in the first place, i.e. the ones who worked on it were not lazy in work ethic. I can tell you this, having worked with them on prior projects. I can’t comment on the validiy of the referenced Chinese subs, but whether or not Lad (who is -usually- in the ballpark or spot on) was in err when translating, the fault, to me, still lies on QC and the LACK of TL checking; it’s just saddening.
“It was minimum effort for free brownie points. Groups like Lunar can spend the time QC’ing and get no thanks for it. For an obscure release like the DVD Special, there’s no competition anyway. Since there’s no competition, who cares about QC? Everyone who wants to watch it has to download your version anyway. And they probably don’t speak Japanese either so it’s all good.”
You can take comfort in knowing that this is *not* Doremi’s mentality; they work on something because they have interest in it, not because they want “points”. They wouldn’t have been involved in fansubbing nearly as long if such were the case. As Mentar pointed out already, Lad has done a lot for the anime world and if not for the community then certainly for himself.
August 31st, 2006 at 12:59 am
o.O so many people bashing the only english fansub grp subbing the mai otome specials…just cos of a screwup they had with the latest mai otome release..
Well, whos to lose if doremi decides not to sub any more ?
the subbers? nah i dont think so. they got nutting to lose by not subbing and we got 1 less choice to choose(in Motome case,no choice at all).
Therefore, unless any1 of you dare come out and promise to sub the current mai otome specials, none of you are qualified to bash the fansubbers. correcting, maybe, but bashing is overboard.
btw if any of you self conceited brats thinks hes better(like a certain singaporean), pls produce a sub version or quit bashing like its your right to get good quality staff everytime you download from the internet. heck, you guys dont even pay for their work.
August 31st, 2006 at 2:24 am
@silverfire:
Good for you then. However, I stand by my statement that folks that do the TQC work don’t need to make it right. It may be what you do (I do it as well if I’m checking a translation) but it’s not something that is regularly required of people. Besides, if the translator is so self-assured that you need to back up a claim of an error, then there really isn’t a point to having someone else check the quality of the work.
August 31st, 2006 at 3:38 am
@Shouta: It’s a requirement simply because I run the group and I require it of everyone who does translation checks. The entire point of requiring backup is so that overzealous QC’s don’t go ahead and say something’s translated wrong if they just don’t have the skills. While I realize that QC’s carry most of the brunt of accuracy checking, we (meaning most of the groups I work with) have QC’s on the team that specifically focus on translation-related issues, so it’s not such a big deal if all translation checking is relegated to those senior QC’s. The translators are also open to criticism, so we generally don’t have problems like that, but I’m digressing.
Most of the groups I see with a dedicated TC also require or suggest that they offer suggestions. Maybe that’s the difference between good groups and bad ones, or slow ones and fast ones. No matter what the situation is, a group will always follow their method of operation to focus on what they want to focus on, be it speed, quality, or compromising both severely for some sort of a middle ground.
August 31st, 2006 at 4:30 am
@silverfire
Makes sense. I’ve only worked with other translators on the same level or higher than myself on projects so it’s never been an issue for me. If they say something needs to be rechecked, I’ll go recheck it and the same goes the other way. I don’t have a TQC stage because of that normally or if I’m working alone, I generally meticulously check the translation several times before and after it’s inserted in a timed script or before I input it into a scanlation.
August 31st, 2006 at 5:25 am
silverfire: looks like you’ve came a long way from the silverfire I knew. So, how long have you known Japanese?
August 31st, 2006 at 6:58 am
I think it is not true that fansub groups are not paid.
They are not usually paid with money, yes. But they are paid with recognition. Whether it is worth anything is another business.
I don’t get the logic that I have to produce something better to criticize an existing problem. If that was how the world worked, politics would be an awfully boring field of discussion.
August 31st, 2006 at 8:49 am
I seriously dislike the first version now!! I am indeed angry with the bloody nonsense of translation.
Fansub groups should really have at least 1 who is good at speaking and listening to Japanese language in order to ensure no mistake OR minor mistake on translation is made on the subtitles.
Imagine if there are some kids here watching some animes and they learnt all the wrong stuff… when they grow up and speak on their own, they will embaress themselves.
August 31st, 2006 at 10:21 am
DarkMirage gets paid in newbosity points. 100 newb points to you, you are getting close to the grand prize! n_n
August 31st, 2006 at 12:35 pm
We have made a decision to recall the v2.
August 31st, 2006 at 1:23 pm
I’m posting here and not on the other post because I want this thread too hit 100 too. XD
It is important for the people involved to know the reason why some of us can’t stand a poor release. Yes, I’ve watched Doremi’s subs on Mai-Otome, and they seem reasonably accurate. But that’s what makes this poor release even harder to stand. The fact that you guys have done a reasonable job so far means that people have become accustomed to your standard, and as such they expect at least this standard of work from you guys in the future. So when this sub came out, some of us felt cheated.
Yes, you are doing a good job by subbing something that other groups don’t. We, the viewers, get used to your reasonable levels of translation. Thus, we put our trust in you to deliver subs of this level. Yes, it is also our fault for being angry due to the poor quality of the sub, as we have no right to be. Still, that is only human. What I am trying to say here is that people expect a certain level of work from you, and when the quality drops below this level, people feel betrayed. But that is what happens when you give services to the public. It’s unfair to you, but the world isn’t fair to begin with. ;)
I’m not saying that Doremi sucks or that you guys should stop subbing. What I personally feel that you could do is to pull a good v3 or make sure your next sub is back up to reasonable quality to prove that our trust in you is not misplaced. I will still continue to watch Doremi, so I hope that quality will be back up to normal. :D
On the other hand, I believe that some of the people who criticise DM for his post should review their stance carefully. Some of you claim that you should only be allowed to criticise if you can propose a better solution. As DM has said in a post already, that is wrong. I can understand your mentality, but does that mean if there is no better solution people should stay happily ignorant of the problem. No matter what kind of problem it may be, it will surface eventually. Alerting people to the problem is important even if you do not propose a solution to it. Yes, DM may have been a little too harsh in his post, but still, the problem cannot be avoided. Perhaps he cannot stand that people who do not understand japanese are being cheated as he has been through that experience before. His post helps to alert people to the existing problem of flaws within this translation process in general. But that does not mean he should be compelled to go back to subbing just because some of you feel that his talents could be used that way. That is being unreasonable. Just because you have the ability to do something doesn’t mean you must.
For those of you too lazy to read through, this is the summary: 1. It is unfair to fansubbers in general that the public expects good work from them, but it is unavoidable. 2. You do not have to propose a solution to a problem if you want to criticise the situation. 3. DM is a person too. He is entitled to choose what he wants to say and do.
August 31st, 2006 at 3:03 pm
@thunderance
i must say your post is quite well written, presenting both sides of a argument but nope, i did not propose a solution and i did not say that their talents must be used in certain situations. all i meant was why bash a fansub group so harsh, this will result in lost of passion and low morale, leading to loss of self esteem, thus instead of correcting their mistakes, they tend to give up at what they are doing. therefore when that happens, which party stands to lose out the most? the subbers? the bashers? or the general public? whose to be responsible to the public if that happens?
Yea DM is a person too, he is entitled to say what he wants, do what he wants, this i acknowledge, but bashing a fansub before requesting them to correct their sub is ethically not right. The translator is too a person, people makes mistakes and should be given a chance to redeem themselves before the bashing starts. imagine, a teacher asks u to do a project due next week. He gives you a piece of crap example to you and refuses to help you. U,of course, handed up a piece of crap work to him, instead of correcting you, he bashes your work infront of the class and throws it in a bin. how would you feel?
@darkmirage
yea politics would be extremely boring, wonder why PAP almost always wins an election? if not,mayb you should watch discovery channel’s HISTORY OF SINGAPORE to understand why…
Editor: Please direct further comments to here.
And wthis: yes, I do agree that politics in Singapore is really boring because you can only earn the “right” to criticize the government if you can do something better than what the PAP is doing. I also agree that America politics is much more interesting because you can say anything you want without having to much your words with actions.